March 21, 2021

26. Letter locking and Star Wars stamps

26. Letter locking and Star Wars stamps

Episode 26

Any new acquisitions?

Nock Co Waxed Canvas Brasstown

Jeweler's loupe, and brass shims for tuning

 What projects are we working on?

Evan- Postal Bulletin _ postmark

 Evan’s January postmarks started getting delivered March 4th

 John- fountain pen tuning

 Getting back to sealing with clear sealing wax out of a glue gun and dried flowers

 Dr. Chien Shiung Wu stamp and sending it off for postmark

What is going on in the stationery world?

Jana Dambrogio has been busy!

 Videos on this fold! 

Even made NYT: 


Stamps we haven’t mentioned yet that are coming out soon. New postal bulletin won’t be out till after recording (for new postmarks)

New non-machinable (75c) stamp

Diamine Reddit ink (don’t know if there is a show preferred store to link to for something so available):

Letterlocking projects we have already done

 John- Dagger lock

Tuck lock

 Evan- A.Dumbledor



One of our listeners, Janet Faughtwill be puting on a Letter Locking class in June

Support the show (


26 Star Wars stamps ep

[00:00:00] John: [00:00:00] Welcome to episode 26 of stationary orbit, where we're all here to learn more about creative letter writing. And in today's episode, we're going to be talking about some of our letter locking experiences and some of the stuff that's been going on with our stationary experiments. Good afternoon Evan

Evan: [00:00:16] afternoon. Great to be here. I heard you have some new bags.

John: [00:00:21] Yeah. Finally got in myNock Co waxed canvas Brasstown and got it out. And it is definitely shiny. It is a lot finer texture to that canvas material than the older brass towns that I have.

Evan: [00:00:37] Interesting. So the design is really neat.

John: [00:00:40] Yeah, the design didn't change from the old brass towns. It's the exact same kind of sewing set up on it and exact same kind of rollout set up on it. But the the material is just a lot I think it's a lot nicer. It's a lot finer texture to it, so yeah, that's going to be fun to, to start getting stuff around [00:01:00] into, and once I get my old  Raven and blue one emptied out. I'll make sure that when it gets sent out to you.

Evan: [00:01:07] Thanks.

John: [00:01:09] Yes, sir. Also have picked up after watching Penn boy, Roy entertainment's a YouTube channel. He was talking about tiny alignment and how to fix a feed or how to fix your tines on your fountain pen. Just some do it yourself stuff.

So I actually went out and bought the jeweler's loupe and some brass shams and. Going to see about attacking the moonman that I've got and see if I can fix some the flow issues on that thing. So that's one of my projects coming up.

Evan: [00:01:34] yeah that I've used a jeweler's loupe for. Making sure a nib was aligned before I have the loop for photography but I've never used the brass shims though. I know a lot of people swear by them.

John: [00:01:47] Yeah. And I thought it was really interesting the way Penn boy Roy did on his, because I guess a lot of folks, when you watch their videos, they talk about hitting the tines with your thumb and putting pressure against a hard table [00:02:00] or something like that. And he was actually a flossing. The, it was, it must've been a thinner brass.

Sheet through the tie-ins and then pulling them off to the side in order to realign them. And it's a little bit more precise technique that he was using. Looking forward to trying that

Evan: [00:02:17] Yeah, it sounds like a good way to do it.

John: [00:02:20] So I understood from your side of things that you had managed to send out some stuff for postal pictorial postmarks and that they've started to come in. How's that been going?

Evan: [00:02:30] my so in the last normal episode I'd mentioned, I had sent off some letters to be. Delivered in the pictorial postmark. Those have not yet, unfortunately arrived. I'm not surprised though. The earliest, I think they could would be tomorrow. However, I sent some letters to friends for pictorial postmark back in January.

In fact, January 29th was when  the letter to get them stamped was sent off. And they were delivered March 4th and fifth. as much [00:03:00] as I love pictorial postmarks if you have a time-sensitive letter, maybe not. Though,  if you can go to an event or the station that the pictorial postmark is happening at then it's not as much an issue though.

Granted, if you need a time-sensitive letter, you can still send a telegram.

John: [00:03:18] Yeah. And now that we're out ofInCoWriMo I don't think anyone's dealing with anything that's too time sensitive anymore. So I'm actually looking

Evan: [00:03:26] Oh, I don't think that the arrival speed is not the most sensitive.

John: [00:03:30] right? Yeah. Just the production speed. So I'm actually looking forward to, I'm going to take my first go at doing the pictorial postmarks and I'm going to be picking up some of those Dr. Chien Shiung Wu stamps that we talked about in the last episode or the episode before, and going to pick up some of those.

And I'm actually going to send a batch of those out for the pictorial postmark.

Evan: [00:03:55] Yeah, the. Those will be fun though. They have to go through the Megaplex [00:04:00] in Kansas city.

John: [00:04:01] Yes sir.

Evan: [00:04:02] it's about a month or it's spent more than a month.

John: [00:04:05] Yeah. And that's fine. It's just the way it's going to work out. One of the other things I'm going to be doing with this next batch of letters is I had before Incowrimo had just started getting into using like clear ceiling wax out of a glue gun and dried flowers. So I'm going to be going back to that and playing with that a little bit.

I don't know how much. A wild and crazy new letter locking I'm going to dig into, but I'm definitely going to be doing some of the newer wax seals using that clear glue gun.

Evan: [00:04:36] Yeah, I've seen some people do variations of that online with a lot of variation and a lot of cool stuff. The first time I saw clear wax used actually was a double layer stamp for sealing bottles of Mead, the person put a Honey color or like a Amber color stamp that had a hexagon pattern and it's, and then it clears stamp on top of that with a Bee in it.

[00:05:00] John: [00:05:01] nice. Yeah, there you go. Hexagons are the best agons CPG gray. 

Evan: [00:05:05] I trust him on that.

John: [00:05:07] Yep. So one of the things that we you get to talk about on this episode is something that just happened in the stationary world and probably within a half a day of the first couple of articles coming out, I had been bombarded by from like four different sources.

Hey, have you seen this what's going on with this? And it turns out that the unlocking history crew and Jana Dambrogio. Managed to make it into mainstream media with CNN and New York times covering her team and their digital unlocking of a piece of mail out of the Brianne collection.

Evan: [00:05:45] Yeah, the Brianne collection is ostensibly what spurred a lot of this research in the beginning. And it's really cool. So they  managed to virtually unlocked a letter from the 16 hundreds.

[00:06:00] John: [00:05:59] Yeah. And I think it's worth saying that even though I don't really think they talk about too much in the articles because it would be getting, I think, a little too in depth, but it's not too in-depth for here is that the unlocking history crew, the research that they had already done on the Brianne collection and all of the reverse engineering that they had done on those letter locks was.

Crucial to what they did with this digital unlock, because even if they had the opportunity to go in and do the high resolution, digital tomography that they did, they might not have been able to properly reverse engineer and unlock that letter to do the unfolding on it. If it hadn't been for all of the previous research that the unlocking history team had done.

Evan: [00:06:44] exactly it is actually really cool. How. Archeologists have been able to in the past, read old scrolls from the dead sea scrolls or Pompei similar fines without unrolling [00:07:00] them and damaging them using Mednet MRIs but taking it to letters that are folded was something that hadn't been done before.

And so it's really cool to see something that we really enjoy. Which has letter locking in the news this way, as well as I'd love history in general. So being able to see, Oh, this historical document the, one of the things that I found funny is that this was a letter for request of a death certificate that was sent by private messenger, not the kind of standard prodo postal service of the time, but private messenger.

John: [00:07:28] It was never   delivered never opened, but it was because at the time the sender wasn't responsible for the postage. It was the receiver who was responsible for the postage. And in this case, if I remember the story correctly, the receiver was a merchant and he had already moved on by the time the courier got to him.

So there was no one there to pay for the letter. So I did and ended up in the Brianne collection, which was.  The postmaster for that area, his last name was Brianne and this was his last letters box or an undelivered, [00:08:00] her dead envelope box.

Evan: [00:08:01] So that  postage on delivery is absolutely correct. I'm not so sure, because I was reading about this one specifically because of the private messenger, as opposed to the proto post office. But one of the interesting things about when The pre post offices switched from letter on or payment on delivery to payments on sending was that all about when they introduced stamps, but people would abuse the system by writing a detailed message inside.

And then just the outside of they'd have very short messages or sometimes nothing on the inside. Very short message on the outside. So you, somebody would receive the letter see the very short message and say, Oh, I don't want this and not pay for it.

John: [00:08:42] . And one of the other interesting little tidbits out of early post offices is a lot of the decorated envelopes that you see now was actually floated as an idea of. Showing paid postage because they would put a [00:09:00] picture over the front of the envelope. And that would count as your postage. And it didn't take off because of the way of the post or the post stamps ended up working out much better, but it was something that was floated by the  British post office to do a pictorial envelopes originally.

And I had imagined it was probably to defeat the kind of issue.

Evan: [00:09:20] I did not realize that the one thing I do like again about early post offices is that philatelist it's people who are interested in philately the study and collection of stamps were originally considered a nuisance because they would buy stamps from the clerks and not use them. And post office said what are you doing before they realized, wait, this is free money

John: [00:09:41] yeah, exactly.

Evan: [00:09:42] You pay for the stamp and you never use the service. So it's free money for them.

John: [00:09:47] Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, I'm sure the for s lot a lot of those folks that there's somebody in a back room somewhere making sure that everything that goes out, counselors, everything that comes in and when they start to see this [00:10:00] difference in their ledger sheet, it probably drove them nuts.

Evan: [00:10:03] Probably.

John: [00:10:04] Mentioning stamps and philately and something that's going to be a collectible. Evan found the star Wars stamps that are going to be coming out in these actually have not even been mentioned in the postal bulletin. They're not mentioned on the U S P S website. You had to go find them on the star Wars website that they're going to be releasing these droid stamps.

Evan: [00:10:25] that's correct. I think they may be somewhere in the deep depth of the media. Section of USBs, but the links don't work. But they're not in the postal bulletin. These are droid stamps of very star Wars, droids BBA C3, PO R2D2 DEO IgG 11 who's from the Mandalorian, I believe. 

John: [00:10:46] Yeah.  absolutely. He's the nanny bot.

Evan: [00:10:49] Yeah, I can't always remember, which is which for some of the minor ones, but I recognize the names.

John: [00:10:54] Yeah. And then I was actually mentioned that earlier chopper. Is actually out of the clone [00:11:00] Wars are no not clone Wars rebels. And he was actually voiced by Dave Filoni

Evan: [00:11:05] no, I've not seen that. That one yet.

John: [00:11:08] Yeah. It's a fun, little patchwork in there. It's I believe that is. Leading up to the rebellion cause they actually do meet a young princess Leia in rebels, and she's already starting to set everything up. And that's also where you've ended up running into Asoka Tano after she left the Jedi order.

Evan: [00:11:30] Okay. These stamps also are a collaboration between star Wars, the force for change and a organization called first, which a lot of people may be familiar with the first robotics competitions. Though it does not seem like these. It seems like these stamps are priced at normal stamp prices.

So their sales do not directly go to these charities, but they are inspired by. The charities?

John: [00:11:54] good deal. Yeah. Yeah. My I do know about the first competition. I didn't realize that the hat stood [00:12:00] for inspiration and recognition of science and technology.

Evan: [00:12:02] Yeah, I forgot. I had forgotten that.

John: [00:12:05] Yep. So no, those are, that's some really cool stuff with the new star Wars stamps. I'm looking forward to that. It'd be interesting to see when they actually do announced that. 

Evan: [00:12:15] When they are in the postal bulletin, I'm sure we will let everybody know.

John: [00:12:19] Yeah. And the other stamp that's going to be coming out is they're going to be replacing the butterfly stamp and the the non machine'll postage, which are the butterfly stamps. They're going to be coming out with a new one and it's going to be the Colorado hairstreak butterfly. That's going to be on the new stamp.

Evan: [00:12:37] this'll be out by the time this episode's released. It is no specific butterfly. They made sure to tell people, but it's heavily inspired by the Colorado hair street. These are very useful for anybody sending a square letters or letters with wax seals to make sure you get the right postage 

But as we've mentioned before, any amount of post-its that adds up to the proper amount. Currently, a [00:13:00] first-class stamp is 55 cents. The  non machine double surcharge is 20 cents. So as long as you add up to 75 cents in postage, a letter locked letter or a wax sealed letter should be sent without a problem.

John: [00:13:12] Yep. Yeah. It's funny how the postal office or postal service really gets into details in some cases where you wouldn't normally have expected them to get into some of the details. And I'll go back to the Dr. Chian Wu stamp. And they actually had a message at the very bottom of the website for that stamp that says that her name was  the way it was recognized at the time, which we used the old system for how you spelled in Chinese. And they actually noted that the new Pinyin system is the prevalent system for spelling and Chinese now, but that was not the system that they used to spell her name for the stamp.

Evan: [00:13:53] that's really interesting. I did not know that I knew somewhat that there were multiple [00:14:00] systems and how you talk. This is an aside in an aside of things, but what names you choose to use and when you translate is a very interesting historical topic that I've heard professors discuss about when you should call names when, how, and when you should change how you translate

John: [00:14:17] Yeah. And I think that in this particular case, as long as you are able to justify the usage that you're using, you should be, I think you're should be fine.

Evan: [00:14:26] yeah. Th the at least what I've heard the standard is that you'd go with the name that they would have used at the time or the translation that would have been used at the time.

John: [00:14:35] Yeah, I completely agree with that. And I've seen that from the point of view of immigration records and things that happen as some of the Europeans were coming through Ellis Island and the renaming that was done there, which was just an absolute butchering of of a lot of family names.

Evan: [00:14:54] Oh, absolutely. W we are not sure what my family name was before we moved to America.

[00:15:00] John: [00:15:00] No. So the other thing that we had on our list of new stuff that's coming around and this is something that I was aware of this new writers, blood ink that's coming in from diamine, but I didn't know the backstory behind it. And Evan pointed that out to me. So Evan, why don't you tell us about it?

Writers blood.

Evan: [00:15:19] for the last three, though, this may have been delayed a little, so it would have been four. It may have been four years Reddit, R slash fountain pens, which was a great community to for people starting and fountain pens. And there a ton of great fountain pen communities, including the stationary orbit discord

John: [00:15:36] Absolutely.

Evan: [00:15:37] But has worked with Diamine to produce an ink.

And they've been. Both the colors, the shading, the properties and the names have all been voted on by our slash fountain pens and produced by Diane mine. And these are standardly available inks. So you don't have to Buyer or worry that they're going to really run out. And retailers this week just started [00:16:00] receiving the newest one, which is writers blood.

It is a little bit darker than diamine oxblood and has a little bit more shading from the images I've seen. The other two in the series are both inks I thoroughly enjoy and use pretty regularly. The first one was Diamine Earl gray, which is a very beautiful gray ink. Actually that looks like pencil.

Which is fun to use an interesting nibs because it lets you do shapes that you can't do with a pencil, but it looks like you're writing with a pencil and also shades very well. Also another good shading ink is the second one in the series, which is timeline, Aurora Borealis which is similar to LaMi amazonite and a beautiful kind of blue-green.

John: [00:16:40] Okay. Yeah.  Thanks Evan. For the history lesson with the Reddit stuff, the Earl gray I'd heard about before, but I had not heard about the other blue-green color into it. And Interesting idea with it being ox similar to oxblood is actually one of them on my list that I needed to go out and see about picking up.

So maybe I'll just [00:17:00] pick up a sample of the writer's blood and stead

Evan: [00:17:01] I've oxblood for many years was my main annotation ink and it's. Really nice. So I'm, I hope writers blood is nice as well. Also with Earl gray, an alternative ink would be a Pelikan moonstone. That's very dry.

John: [00:17:19] Yep. Yeah. The gray inks are definitely an acquired taste. It's not something I'd typically write with, but if you have the right circumstance  or  the right nib or the right pen  I'm sure some of the folded nibs would probably work well with that kind of a gray ink.

Evan: [00:17:35] I don't have a full nip, but that would be fun.

John: [00:17:38] Yep. So the next thing we wanted to talk about a little bit, and we'd mentioned this in the episode before, is some of the different letter locks that we've actually done and the kind of lessons that we learned from, and some tips to help our listeners. Execute those kinds of letter locks [00:18:00] and do it right the first time, or have some tips to how you do it.

So I'll start with one of mine. And I don't know if it's the actual appropriate name for it. That I was actually looking through the dictionary of letter locking today, and they had a whole bunch of different categories for the different kinds of letter locks and mine fits into the folded. Cut and tabbed and then sealed or at an adhesive category.

So it's pretty high security level letter lock, but I call it the dagger lock. And the reason why I like it is because you can do it with, I think I've done it up to four sheets of paper and you just fold them up in a C fold style, which is what they call. Two mountain folds so that the folds fold out toward.

The viewer, if it's laid flat and you fold that up into a tri-fold style. And then I set it down onto a surface, that'll withstand a [00:19:00] utility knife being cut on it. Usually I use like the back of a clipboard or something like that. And you have to use a fair bit of pressure and you cut through all three.

Layers of the letter on both sides, make sure that you have a room to where you can put the dagger piece through. And then what I was doing is I was using a piece of. A four that I would just cut into a long triangular shape. And I would pin that through one of the sides through one of the slits that I'd cut into it, run it under the letter, bring it up through the other side and then fold it over on the top.

And the big thing for me that I thought really helped when I was putting together these dagger locked letters is getting everything lined up over one of the slits. On the top side of the letter. With where the final fold of the dagger comes over the top. So that way, when you're sealing it, you're sealing the dagger to [00:20:00] itself and onto the top of the slit on the ladder so that it makes it where if it were really a letter lock, it would show evidence of tampering.

And I personally don't know how hard they are to take apart because I've only sent these out. I haven't gotten them in, but so far I've not gotten any complaints. From people saying that they couldn't read what I had to put into one of those dagger locks. So it seems to be that seems to be my little tip for that block.

Evan: [00:20:29] it's not having received one, it was not the most difficult to open but it is a design that you could try and prevent tampering with when I've tried making them. One of the things that I had trouble with was getting  the locking piece of paper tight enough. And but that may have just been my poor cutting skills.

John: [00:20:46] I think I found when I was doing that, that the slits that I was cutting into the paper, cause I was using it with two or three sheets or three to four sheets of paper, is that the slits actually helped hold the pieces of paper in place [00:21:00] pretty well once they'd been folded through.

Evan: [00:21:03] Okay.

The other lock you use.

John: [00:21:05] So the other lock that I've been using a lot here recently, especially for InCoWriMo. Is a tuck lock and this one's a real easy one to do. You really only want to do this with a single sheet of paper? Most of the time, I suppose you could do it with multiple sheets of paper just makes things more complicated.

But what you do is it's another one of those C type folds where you've got The folds going the same direction. And it's a, tri-fold a fold bringing in the center. But what I found is that if you offset the, tri-fold just a little bit to where one side is a  a little bit narrower than the other side. And then you fold over the wide side first, put a crease into that and then fold the narrow side over into it. It forms a tab that you can pop the other side, open, put the tab into it and then crease everything down [00:22:00] appropriately. And then you can either put a wax seal over that.

Or in my case, for most of my InCoWriMo, I was putting a sticker we're over that.

Evan: [00:22:07] Yeah, so that's basically the letter lock I started with. It's a great, easy one for anybody. And I've sent it with, I think, up to four pages.

John: [00:22:17] wow. That's quite of.

Evan: [00:22:19] Bulky letter, heart had no flex to it.

John: [00:22:24] So what about some of the letter locks that you've done?

Evan: [00:22:26] So I've messed around quite a bit. I've tried this morning a little to mess around with what we saw from the Brianne collection in the news. Haven't gotten that one down yet or in the mail. But one of the big ones that we've mentioned in the last normal podcast was the Albus Dumbledore.

The Dumbledore lock which is from the movies which I've actually not seen the final movie. But nevertheless it is several pages adhered traditionally with wax at three points along the left seat, along the left border. Into a [00:23:00] larger sheet of paper and then folded I actually folded it with a tough lock normally just to make sure it could be sent, but what happened in the mail is that the wax on the inside got really beat up while the white seal on the outside survived.

The other thing I noticed when I made this is the wax on the inside. When I tried poured and get the paper on and seal it really, it solidified a little too fast. To get things lined up how I want it. And sealing, it was quite difficult. This is one I want to mess with more while using washi tape or I could do double-sided tape as well, but I think washi tape will be more interesting and would be a great thing.

Also if you're using one to mix different papers. So let's say you had a five sheets of several different types of paper and you wanted to write a letter of multiple kinds. That will be an interesting way to do it. So I haven't sent one of those in a while, but I want to mess with it more.

John: [00:23:52] Yeah. And with the Albus Dumbledore letter lock, I think that's a really good candidate for just like washi taping ephemera [00:24:00] in, if you have like a news article or a little snippet from something or a card that just tickled your fancy, you can just tape it in or seal it in and try to use that for that kind of a letter lock

Evan: [00:24:12] absolutely. As long as it's flexible enough to be folded in whatever. Lock you decide for the outer sheet. It would be great for any of that.

John: [00:24:21] Yeah, I definitely think if I'm going to try that Albus Dumbledore one, I'm going to be putting that into an envelope. It was something I was actually looking at the dictionary of letter locking today and they have different categories for the letter locking ideas in the first one is your category, which is that the letter lock actually is the envelope and the way it's folded into it.

And then the second category is. The category that I've really been creating mine in, which is just a secured letter kind of deal where it can go into an outer envelope. It doesn't have to, but it typically does. And then the the letter lock is there [00:25:00] to show tampering.

Evan: [00:25:02] Yeah. One of the other ones that I send out into the wild all the time without any envelope as you have called it au natural is the Japanese hexagon, which there's a great video on the letter locking YouTube channel about, and this has two alternating corners that are cut off. So you have a hexagon shape and it's really fun.

One to do. It looks distinctive. It sends well and seals great with either I of course use wax, but would seal with stickers or washy without any problem. The one thing that's interesting about this, if you use a paper that has a pattern on it so I normally write on doctorate paper. When you go to write the address that pattern's going to be tilted 45 degrees because of how you end up folding it. Figuring it out and not writing my addresses at a weird angle, which is the post office would not be so happy about that was a little bit of a surprise the first time.

John: [00:25:59] Yeah, that's [00:26:00] in the same territory as when I was making the envelopes using the . Aeronautical grid paper or the aeronautical chart paper is when I got out, everything was said and done. There was no way I was going to be able to write on the front of that without it really being mixed up inside of the aeronautical chart.

So I just slopped standard white labels on those

Evan: [00:26:22] yeah, th the hexagon on would be  a great candidates to just use normal labels.

John: [00:26:27] I think that's something that everyone should keep in mind is that if you do start getting something that's busy and complicated, either it's an envelope that you made for yourself or it's something that's going on with the way you decided to let her lock something. Is that those those self-adhesive little.

Address labels can be a lifesaver for being able to get an address onto something, even though it yeah. It's cluttered.

Evan: [00:26:54] Absolutely.

John: [00:26:56] And then the other one that I understand that you did, and I've actually [00:27:00] received one of these, but I haven't tried doing it yet is one of the Italian pinwheel.

Evan: [00:27:04] so the Italian pinwheel, it is beautiful. It comes out basically as a square with a little bit of paper, not coming off the sides and it opens up like a flower. It is actually one of the easier ones to do, because basically you just fold the letter down into panels. Oh, so you fold one panel down and you fold the next one over it.

Where I had problems with it and concerns was that I was putting wax directly in the center. And the only thing in between my writing and the wax was the paper I'd folded on top, which had a bit of a gap. So I was concerned with that using normal supple wax that wax might seep in and now you can't read a few sentences.

So it's not one I've done recently. I think. It might be a good one for stamps or stickers, but it opens beautifully when you do it. It would also be a great one. If you're using traditional shellac and can actually break it open, just the Slack will fall off.

[00:28:00] John: [00:28:00] yeah. When I got mine, the person that had sent it. And we'll actually be talking about her here in just a second. She actually, the way she got around the wax part of it is she was actually using a very small wax seal when she did hers so that it was there, it held the letter together, but there wasn't so much wax that it could probably get in and foul the letter.

Evan: [00:28:22] so I've sent two. One of which I believe what I did was I put a small. Piece of paper to make sure there wasn't a gap right there. And so wet seal just enough to get outside of the letter. Apparent it survived though. I'm pretty sure I annoyed the receiver who, if I recall was a fellow podcaster  cat Palmisano.

John: [00:28:42] There we go. Yep. So the one I wanted to talk about mentioned That we'd be talking about her hair in just a second. One of our listeners her name is Janet Faught. She is out of the Utah area and she gave us this and it's a very early notice type of thing, but she's actually going to be doing [00:29:00] an online letter locking class in June, and this is done through the society for calligraphy and she's a very well trained artist.

She's a great calligrapher. I've gotten several letters from her over the past year. And she was the one who first did the italic and PennWell letter lock that she sent to me. And yeah, she's going to be doing a letter locking class in June. So I'll make sure that we have a link to that in our show notes.

And with it being online, I don't think there's any class ceiling for that one. So that should be open for everyone.

Evan: [00:29:32] and it looks to be free. It's something I'm very interested in. It sounds like fun. I'm sure we'll mention it again.

John: [00:29:38] absolutely. So that's gonna do it for this episode, I greatly appreciate everyone tuning in and listening