April 18, 2021

28. Postmarks Strike Back

28. Postmarks Strike Back

 In this episode, we will be talking about new acquisitions, new droid postmarks, and Quill pens.

Any new acquisitions?

Evan - 
Musubi purchases

Rickshaw Bagworks Golden Waves Pen Sleeve

Hero H718


John - Montegrappa Monte Grappa

Box of Sheaffer pens from TX


Pictorial Postmarks:

Canada Post sends a prepaid postcard to every household in the country 


Follow up on star wars stamps, being released May 4th, virtual event on FB and Twitter

March 25th Postal Bulletin https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2021/pb22568/html/info_004.htm

and the Pictorial Postmarks are in for the Droids, they are going to have a different one for each droid


USPS guidelines for color pictorial postmarks

“Customers may submit #6 or #10 envelopes constructed of paper rated as “laser safe.” The Postal Service™ recommends envelopes of 80-pound Accent Opaque, acid-free, 9/16-inch side seams with no glue on the flap.”

Royal Mail King Author Stamp series 


ColorVerse Eye on the Universe Season 7 https://www.instagram.com/p/CMbRFr4ju8a/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link 

Quill Pen: 


If you would like to leave us feedback we have a channel dedicated to feedback on the Stationery Orbit Discord

Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/stationeryorbit?fan_landing=true)


28. Postmarks Strike Back

[00:00:00] john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:00:00] Welcome to episode 28 of stationary orbit, where we are all here to learn more about creative letter writing. I'm your host John West, and I'm joined by our cohost Evan Harris. And in today's episode, we will be talking about new acquisitions, new droid postmarks and Quill pens. Welcome Evan.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:00:17] Great to be here. How are you doing?

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:00:20] I am doing wonderfully. I am really excited about this episode. I'm really excited about what the us postal services managed to pull out for the droid postmarks. But we'll talk about that here in a little bit later. As I understand it, you've got a good number of new acquisitions to talk about.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:00:35] Yeah, some of them took a look a little bit to get to me, but I have I got a hero H 718 pen, which is a really interesting take on the safety pen. It's modern pen cartridge or captured converter a mechanism, but it started really neat, a number five, 10 carat, gold nib, and it retracts.

So it hides itself away. They still need to use a [00:01:00] proper cap, a really neat little pen that you can get  from Asia. I also, after talking with Daryl in our last episode, I get some stuff from Musubi which I'm a really big fan of, and it holds up really well. So far, I went with the Tomo, the old Tomi river, while you still can get it.

 john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:01:18] yeah, that's a good choice. I'm really jealous. I had ordered the same stuff and it hasn't quite made it to me yet, but I'm excited when it does.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:01:25] yeah. It you will enjoy it. I know you ordered a case did I. The case is incredibly well-made. And similar to another recent purchase is my Rickshaw golden sands pen sleeve which has a very nice to have jolt fabric not rolled in sand golden waves, a nice little Gilt fabric in it.

Rickshaw does a lot of pen sleeves. I'm a fan of theirs and they do a lot of special additions that you can look out for on their Instagram.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:01:53] Yeah. And actually in some of the same tradition that. Daryl does. They actually have a lot of very [00:02:00] specialized fabrics, including they've been getting in some Japanese fabrics recently that they've had up on Instagram as well as they've actually got a proper Tweed from over in Scotland.

And they've got the Harris Tweed from over there. So that's something, those are incredible cases.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:02:18] Yeah, Harris tweeds, a really neat fabric. I actually have a coat from made of Harris, Tweed that I bought when the one time I got to go to Scotland unfortunately they don't have a matching tweet cause I'd love to have a matching case. But Harris Tweed's tweet in general is an interesting.

Interesting mechanical material Harris tweet itself is also pretty neat. And I also, as you said, in the intro I got a box of quills but we'll talk a little bit more about that later. What about you? What have you gotten recently?

John: [00:02:45] So I have managed to score something off of the Pen Addict Slack and picked up a  Monte grappa Monte Grappa finally I wasn't really excited about paying the full retail price for one of those, but I was more than happy to pick it up at the price that [00:03:00] I did. And it's actually a really fun writer

it really does live up to the hype that was out there for that. It's not in production any longer, so good luck finding one of them. Thus, the reason why I picked mine up when I did.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:03:12] Yeah. Nice. Very nice looking pen.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:03:17] Yup. And then the other things that I ended up picking up here just recently, I actually ended up getting a box of Shaffer pens from one of our listeners in Texas. So I want to make sure I give a shout out here. So thank you very much. Ignacio, Armas for sending me along some of the Shaffer calligraphy pens, and a few other older Shaffer pens.

And I also have been digging into, I had picked up a whole set of old technical drawing pens Koh-i-noor and one fabric Castile. Technical drawing pen that the previous owner could not figure out how to get the pens open so you can install a cartridge. And now that I've got them, I'm [00:04:00] starting to find her figure out exactly what the problem is.

And these are really old technical drawing pens, and they're, they've become fragile. The plastic's been really deteriorated on them. So I don't even know if I'm going to be able to revive them or not. So

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:04:16] that'd be an interesting, it's gotta be an interesting project. I've never tried using one of the technical pens, but they do look really cool.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:04:24] yeah, the big downside to technical drawing pens. I being a geologist. I had to use technical drawing pens during my training and during my field session. And especially with the old Koh-i-noor pens, they were using India ink and India. Ink is just a pain in the butt to deal with. And I had absolutely zero intention of using India ink for.

These technical drawing pins. I was going to use a hack that came to us from Timothy Ely that I was going to go find some of the  document, black ink and ink them up with that and stuff.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:04:58] Yeah.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:04:59] One of the [00:05:00] items that you had put in the show notes and a really interesting. Set a notebooks you'd listed some from Apica and these are Amalfi paper notebooks.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:05:12] Yeah, so they are quite a bit different than what we saw from what we have from musubi and they are made in intercises. But very neat sketchbook and also a lot of customization with being able to put in monograms and embossing. It looked like, Oh, it's a leather bound notebook. It looks like old leather bound books.


john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:05:34] Yeah, not,

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:05:35] you'd like,

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:05:36] yeah, not only are they leather bound, they actually have the laid paper edges on them. So they're a very authentic, very antique looking

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:05:47] I like it. When a book has the laid paper edge, I'm not sure how much I'd like it on my own notebooks, but if I'm reading a novel or the Saatchi, I liked that a lot.

[00:06:00] john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:06:00] Yeah, that's cool. So one of the items that we had teased in the intro, and one thing that I'm really excited about are some of the new pictorial postmarks that are coming out. But I know Evan wanted to talk about one specifically from one of the older postal bulletins before we get hardcore into the droid stuff.

So what was the one you wanted?

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:06:23] Since the last time we discussed some of these new postmarks, there've been two postal bulletins, one of which all the new stuff was droid. So we'll talk about that just a moment, but the previous one to that. So you, unfortunately won't be able to get it by the time this comes out, is there were a few, including one for the big race.

So I presume that's At the, I did a ride. I was blinking out on the term, but it is a much that game in early February is the big game. They did not want to get, did not want to risk being called out for anything. So it's the big race station in Anchorage, Alaska. And there is a Malmuth or a Husty in the [00:07:00] postmark.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:07:01] Yep. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, that's, it was a cool postmark. Some of the other postmarks like you mentioned the new. Postal Bulletin in that came out is all about the new droid stamps and the new droid pictorial postmarks that are going to be coming out. And they've got a variety of the different droids that star Wars has had over the years.

Everything from the original to, with C3 PO and R2D2 and the Gonk droid off of the Jawa's ship all the way up to K2 50, which was out of Out of rogue one and chopper that's off of star Wars rebels, and the IgE 88 droid. That was a part of the Mandalorian group. And they're actually going to do not only.

This set of stamps that has all of the individual droids on them. They're actually doing a pictorial postmark for every single one of the droids. And you can't, I don't think you can order them [00:08:00] specifically everything that's on here. It all says star Wars, droid stamps first day of issue postmarks but.

There will be an opportunity to get each of these droids as a pictorial postmark. So one of the things I wanted to talk about is because I know that this is probably going to be a popular post pictorial postmark is I wanted to talk about.

Some of the actual specifications that the U S P S puts out for these pictorial postmarks. And what they're recommending is an 80 pound accent opaque acid-free envelope in a number 10 size and. While the folks at the U S P S I'm sure have a lot of very large commercial envelope contracts and have piles of different envelopes sitting around.

That's not really a luxury that all of us snail mail addicts are going to have necessarily. And it turns out [00:09:00] looking for these things. You cannot find an 80 pound accent OPEC. Number 10 envelope on the general market that it is a commercial only item

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:09:13] and though many of us may feel like our living spaces have become warehouses for some products. We are not, when we start talking on the scale of USPS

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:09:23] Yeah. Somebody USPS  rifled through all of their various piles of envelopes that they had sitting around and they have decided. That this 80 pound number 10 X accent opaque envelope is like the prime example of what you want to put through the machine in order to get the perfect pictorial postmark.

So what I'm going to do in here in the not too far off future is I'm actually going to go out and I'm going to buy five different types of heavier pound paper envelopes that are white laser per laser ready kind of envelopes. [00:10:00] And I'm going to put them through this pictorial postmark process.

The droid series won't be released until May 4th, which is first day of issue, but I've, I'm going to go back through and I'm going to use the Chien Wu as a few of them. Initial batches, because they do have a color pictorial postmark for that. And then I'll report back here later on, on the podcast for what my results were for each of these styles of envelopes.

And if I need to, I will go through and do them individually for the droids later on. So that's my experiment for later.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:10:35] It'll be interesting to see what happens. Cause I, I am curious to see what they will stamp, especially for the digital color ones. I've yet to try to send something like a letter locked letter. I do not think it might work. If I used tape, it would definitely would not work with a wax seal.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:10:54] Yeah, no. Yeah. They don't even want you using self-adhesive labels [00:11:00] on the front of the envelopes they get put through this machine. They're picky.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:11:04] yeah, they are picky about it. And you can normally buy a set of digital color postmarks with everything first day of issue. There for the star Wars ones are, as we met, as we mentioned earlier a separate digital color postmark for every single droid, they don't normally do that for every single stamp. they did not for the bugs bunny. One that was out a few months ago, there is still a black and white pictorial postmark, and it is only the one to BB eight.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:11:33] That's correct. Yeah. And also if it turns out that when you send in the. Letters for the pictorial postmark. It is a minimum of 10 envelopes and you have to send in two stunt envelopes for them to print and potentially ruin because if they print onto the envelopes that you send them and they decide that the print of the postmark doesn't look good enough, they will default back to that black and white [00:12:00] postmark, which is free of charge.

But. They're going to send them all back to you in black and white instead of the color versions, because they're going to have a QA standard for their pictorial postmarks

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:12:13] exactly. And so I'm excited to hear back about your experiment.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:12:18] Yeah. And I'm very interested to see how this is going to turn out, because I don't know why they would pick. Such a I know why they picked the commercial grade envelope because they've got them around in their handy, but why no one bothered to check to see if that's something you could get at office Depot or staples.

It's just a little disconnect there, 

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:12:41] yeah. Maybe someday we'll find out.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:12:45] Yep. Mentioning Us postal service stuff. It turns out that the us postal service is not the only group that has been out and busy. It sounds like the Canadian post office has been up to something. You want to talk about that?

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:12:55] that's correct. The Canadian postcard and post office in order to [00:13:00] ensure people are connected in these interesting times, sent out a few weeks ago, a prepaid postcard to every household in the nation.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:13:09] There you go. How do you make Canucs hoppy?

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:13:11] yeah, they I ensure there are other things, including maple syrup and the Stanley cup,

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:13:16] Definitely the Stanley cup.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:13:17] Which has not seen much time in Canada recently.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:13:21] Yeah.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:13:22] they had a few different images on the cards with blank, with relatively simple texts and phrases on them about staying connected. And of course being Canada, this is all bilingual, both in English and French.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:13:34] Absolutely. Yep. And then on the other side of the pond it turns out that the the Royal postal service over in Britain has also been doing some stuff with some stamps.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:13:44] yeah, her Majesty's Royal post office has released a legend of King Arthur series. The role post office has a lot of really interesting series. I think they still have. Some star Trek, some James Bond and the such a, but this is their newest one. [00:14:00] Has various paintings of mythical things from Authurian legends sword from the stone as well as sort from the Lake.

The Holy grail.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:14:10] green night.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:14:11] Exactly.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:14:13] Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, if any of you are looking for a Monty Python's version of King Arthur, you're going to be sadly mistaken. These are the true legends, not the parody.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:14:24] However, given the Royal post office, I would not be surprised to see a Monty Python set at some point. And I wanted to look a little more into it before I can say anything, but hopefully soon I can talk about some of their pictorial. Postmarks just the UK does have their own set system.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:14:39] Oh, very good. I'll be interested to see what you come up with for that. I had not bothered to look at that, but it makes a lot of sense.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:14:46] it is different. I've I have looked into Canada's as well. The last time I could find anything on pictorial postmarks from Canada was dated 2017.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:14:55] okay. The other thing we had in our show notes is the colors [00:15:00] I on the universe series seven set of inks that have come out

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:15:04] Yeah, they come out, I think today, in fact, the day of recording. 

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:15:08] Actually, no, there'll be in launching April 8th.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:15:11] So slightly after recording. But color verse, have you ever used any color for sink?

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:15:16] absolutely. I've got Schrodinger and cat and actually liked cat so much. I went out and got another small bottle of it.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:15:23] Yeah, so I've got the Apollo set and the stra Linka which is actually what's in my hero eight H seven one eight that I talked about earlier and that came in a set with JFK's dog Pushinka.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:15:37] okay. Yeah.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:15:38] who doesn't know color vers most of their inks are science, especially space themed names, and they come in sets of two, either a normal ink and a most of their rinks, I should say, especially their main line comes in sets of two, either a, normally two different colors in a big bottle and small bottle or normal and glistening version of the ink.

So there are some [00:16:00] really nice looking ones in this set, things like that huddle. With a HST Hubble space telescope, a SM one course in CoStar. What's some of the other nice ones. Pillars of creation looks like this could be an interesting purple.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:16:14] yeah. And actually mentioning the purple ink. They have their ordinary days series, I believe. And one of those was a delicious sleep that has a cat on the bottle. So of course I had to buy that as well. And that's a nice fairly saturated purple ink.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:16:29] Yeah, I'm a big fan of both, even just the shape of the bottle for color versus unique. They do a lot of neat stuff and. State, especially given the name, the title of this podcast. We had to mention it.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:16:43] Yeah, absolutely. I have no, the space related geeks have to stick together. The other thing that we had coming around on the show notes is Evan has a friend of his up in Minnesota that has managed to hook him up with a bunch of feathers. [00:17:00] And he has actually been cutting feather, Quill pens.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:17:03] Correct. Attacher the friend is in Michigan. But he's a friend of mine from undergrad, Noah Cohen. He wanted the only thing he wanted me to say was that. These are he's up, he hunts wild game. These are ethically sourced. And the Turkey that these came from was enjoyed for his family's Thanksgiving.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:17:22] Nothing wasted.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:17:23] No, nothing wasted. I have no problem eating poultry. And so I definitely do not have a problem with quills use everything you can. But. So I've also done a little bit of looking into the history of the quill of twill originated in 400 CE thereabouts. Before that everything, the only re writing implements were either carving or to use reeds the shape of carving your Quill on a reed actually about or a feather, Quill, and a reed pen, or about the same of how you carve the nib, which takes some skill.

I'm still trying to. Work at it. But it's really interesting, really very flexible. I [00:18:00] would have not expected these to be anywhere near as flexible. But, and they're really neat  one thing? I didn't know. Did you know this though? You got shift to prepare the quill you can't just take it straight off the bird.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:18:11] Yeah, I did know that. And actually I've got a link in here for Dennis Rood dot com for Quill pens. And he has some YouTube videos. If I'm not mistaken that talk about the preparation of the Quill and then how you're cutting them. And one of the things that he really gets into in one of his videos is the fact that.

Quills are such a big part of our writing system because they were used for hundreds and hundreds of years. And when they started making fountain pens, when you started coming up with stub, nibs, and calligraphy nibs, it was to try and get. Duplicate the same strokes that you were able to do with a feather, Quill, and almost all of the strokes are pull strokes when you're writing with a Quill [00:19:00] pen like that.

And it's the same way when you're writing proper calligraphy with a calligraphy nib, they're all pull strokes.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:19:07] Yeah. And so teaching myself to only use pull strokes and that's part of why my carving is not been greatest because I've broken it a few times. Is that I've I use a more modern hand with both poles. Push and pull, but so the steel or the, it was originally gold and steel nibs before fountain pens themselves.

So it was just dip nip. Pens came about in, I believe in the 17th or 18th century. But the feather Quill came about in the fifth. So they're quite a long time and they were used. Pretty much an all Western and middle East middle Eastern writing in between that timeframe feather quills are still used for writing Sifrei Torah or Torah scrolls.

In Judaism, I was looking in some Islamic calligraphy, apparently they still use reeds. And you can actually still use a read to write a Sifrei Torah from what I've From what I know, but it [00:20:00] last significantly less time. And so people use quills but Dennis Rudd, who you mentioned earlier is actually he's from Minnesota.

And I might go by past his his. Storefront and pick up a feather or two because he prepares them. When I was looking into some of the history of how to prepare them, there are a lot of interesting ways. The easiest one is to let them sit for six months to a year. These are from Thanksgiving.

So they already sound a bit like they are made of plastic now instead of a natural material,

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:20:27] nice. Yeah. And then I think with what Dennis was doing on his YouTube channel he actively heat treats his correct.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:20:36] he treating from what I could tell that was developed in about the 15th century or so. So for the longest time people would, they would just save all the quilts, but he actively, he treats them in sand, which was a great way to. Trans to generate dry heat. You don't want to soak it with water.

You want it, you want to dry it out, basically. So either you let it dry out naturally, or you, he treat it to dry it out.

[00:21:00] john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:21:00] Yeah, so it's a desiccation

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:21:03] But so interestingly, the best quills come from the larger birds, because you get a larger.  Tube in the feather and they come from the primary flight feathers.

So the ones at the very edge of the wing generate apparent the best quills though. Historically smaller bird quills have been used for detailed calligraphy.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:21:26] okay. That makes sense.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:21:27] goose is the most common and as it was one of the most common bird, it's a large flight. Bird. And one of the most common ones, especially in Europe for many hundreds of years, Turkey are also very common because also a large flight bird.

Thomas Jefferson in fact kept a whole set of goose just for his quills because he needed that many quills

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:21:50] yeah, I believe that. Yeah. 

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:21:52] The other parts of it are that supposedly the quills from the left wing are better than those from the right wing [00:22:00] because the the feather will have a natural bend to it out of your line of sight.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:22:05] okay. Yeah, I guess that would make sense. It also depend on which hand you're writing with too, I'd imagine

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:22:10] Correct. But especially in that day and age writing with your left hand may have. Have been considered taboo or frowned upon

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:22:19] Yeah, I can definitely see how that would happen. When you were taking a look at things that were left-handed the common phrase for that was sinister

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:22:27] translates from Latin directly as left-handed or of the left.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:22:33] Yeah. Of the left. Yeah. So if you're left-handed you were sinister.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:22:37] Yeah. But there, interestingly, some historic event, at least one historic event the signing of  the peace treaty with Mexico was done with a Eagle Quill,

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:22:47] can't do that anymore.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:22:49] very illegal to do now. Even if technically, even if you found a feather that had molted, which would be a very good Quill from the historical documentation, I've seen, [00:23:00] it is at least for a bald Eagle, illegal to use as much as it would be very interesting to write with a Bald eagle quill

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:23:08] yeah. I think the only groups that are actually allowed to collect those feathers are native American tribes. And it's because they have a tribal rights under the treaties.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:23:20] Native American tribes and some people working for the department of natural resources and people were doing scientists doing conservation work have some rights to find if they find stuff, but that's to my knowledge, which is a very reasonable thing though. The number of bald Eagles in America continues to increase.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:23:43] Yeah, I was up in Alaska a number of years ago, and I was told that the. Bald Eagles that are up there are almost like seagulls in some areas, but unfortunately I didn't run in any of those areas. I was really hoping to see that, but not [00:24:00] in the cards for that trip.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:24:02] Yeah. Sometimes you can see them in Minneapolis,

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:24:07] Yeah. And they're definitely bald Eagles here in Colorado. They're just not a lot of them.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:24:11] Yeah, along the Mississippi river once or twice, I've seen Eagles perched and nesting in some of the trees along the park, along the Parkway.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:24:20] Yeah. Yeah. And of course this would be a completely different story of Ben Franklin had his way and the American bird would have been the Turkey.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:24:29] Yes that if he had his way we would be taught, discussing the Nash. I would be writing with the Quill of a national bird. I'm trying to think what other birds could be. Interesting. Owl quills were from what I read used for very detailed calligraphy. One, I wonder though this is not something I've seen.

Anyone use is an albatross,

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:24:47] Oh yeah, that'd be another one that gets you in a lot of trouble. I imagine.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:24:52] It w it would get you in a lot of it to get you in a lot of trouble, but those are big birds with giant feathers.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:24:58] Yeah. So in your [00:25:00] research, is there an actual preferred nib? Is Turkey the preferred Quill

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:25:05] Goose and Turkey are the preferred ones because they're large, they're both readily available and they are large enough for historical accuracy. Most people prefer goose but historically it was more readily available than Turkey. But if you go to a supermarket today, Turkey is more common than it is goose.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:25:22] right. Yeah. So you were mentioned before that you'd had some issues with the way you were carving these, maybe help the listeners out a little bit, because I had a certain preconceived notion about the way a quills were cut and I thought it was just a straight angle. Cut that. Created the quills and it turns out that it is quite a bit more in-depth than that.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:25:48] so it is a lot more depth. It's a lot of just nuance. It is the first cut. You make pretty much as a straight is an angled. Cut the generates your surface. [00:26:00] As if you're looking at the bottom side of a fountain pen, nib, the The nib bends away from the tip. So you make a cut to replicate that.

And then you'd carve that in more the angle and carving helps you get more area that ink can stick to within the bear within the tube of the nib. And then you carve it. You carve towards the tip, you actually carve it into a fine tip and exactly how much you carve. It depends. We'll show how much.

How wide your thinnest line is then you have to make a slit down the, exactly down the middle of your of your carve. And you have to make a slit and that develops your capillary action that both allows for flexibility and for your ink to flow.


It's a lot of just kind of nuance and getting better at it.

And the interesting, another fun fact for the day the. I've been using a pen knife. Most people think pen knives come from they're about the size of a pen. That's completely incorrect. The traditional use of the term [00:27:00] pen knife is a knife for carving pens.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:27:03] Okay. Yeah, that makes nice, a little more sense. But going back to the idea of carving the Quill into a nib there, when you were, when we're talking about modern fountain pen nibs, most of the design of modern fountain pen nibs. Comes directly from the feather Quill, nibs and the way that they were carved down in that same slit in there for the capillary action to get the ink down onto the paper.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:27:32] Yeah, absolutely. I would say it feels a little bit more like a nice tubular nib, which it is more topologically similar to a, so Lamy 2000, any of the. Old Parker, 50 ones are mod or modern non Parker, 51 replicas and the such use tubular nibs. And so it feels like a nice tubular nib, more than a nib with wider wings. Because you can't really do [00:28:00] the outstretched wings, like a fountain pen nib on a feather.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:28:06] Yeah. And I think that also goes to the fact that most of the modern fountain pens are don't have hardly any flex to them. They're their nails. And that's part of the reason why

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:28:18] I had the chance to use a vintage flex pen,  which I was never that curious about until re until I started trying to write with one of these, because I wonder how much closer do they replicate the feel of writing with a Quill.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:28:34] yeah. The way I've understood it, listening to others is that part of it's the design and part of it had to have been part of the metallurgy as well. That the older vintage nibs are, have a different metallurgy to them.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:28:49] I always wonder about that because if it is a set karat gold nib, the metallurgies should be the same because karat standards have been standard for. [00:29:00] Quite a while. When making jewelry and the majority of nibs were made by jewelers for quite a while, or if metal nibs were made by jewelers

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:29:09] Okay it might be something for for some later research then

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:29:13] yeah. More history we can discuss in the history of writing. I am curious to also try and carve a write with a reed to go back even further. Of course at the same time in. Both parts of the middle East and Asia and other parts of the world, people wrote with brushes and still do but re getting ahold of brush pens is quite easy.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:29:31] Yeah, absolutely. I love them.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:29:34] I'm not very good with the brush pen. But I should try more. I am once I've mastered this, I might go back in time a little bit more but I know some places to get reads because you can just they're parks that have. Lakes and reeds. I can find one that has fallen over

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:29:51] There you go. Yeah. Then you just got to go get yourself a pan of dry sand and he didn't get that thing. heat treated downs where you can [00:30:00] use it either that, or like you said before, let it sit for six months.

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:30:04] Yeah. Hopefully it doesn't take me six months to get around to doing that, but who knows?

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:30:09] Yep. So there has been a lot of stuff that we've been talking about on the podcast and talking about things that interest us. And one of the things we wanted to throw out to the listeners is if any of you have any feedback We have the stationary orbit discord that's available, that you can come out and join onto the discord it's free.

And there's an actual entire channel dedicated to feedback for stationary orbit on our discord. There's also the email for stationary orbit, which is john at stationeryorbit.com.  We definitely invite any kind of feedback from our listeners for any other topics that you might like to hear about

evan_1_04-04-2021_151515: [00:30:50] exactly. We want to know what you think about all the interesting things that we at least enjoy.

john-stationeryorbit-com_1_04-04-2021_141519: [00:30:56] Yup. And there was so much stuff going on in the the [00:31:00] stationery world that even with a as in to it as we are we are going to miss some stuff. So if you guys find stuff that. Interests you and you want to hear more about it or do you just happen to find something that's very interesting.

Definitely send it along our direction. I think on that note, I'm going to go ahead and wrap this one up and y'all have good two weeks.